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Censorship in the DM Chats
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Do you agree with the intensifying level of censorship as it stands now?
Yes
39%
 39%  [ 15 ]
No
60%
 60%  [ 23 ]
Total Votes : 38

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Ben Sullivan
Ancient Wyrm
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Joined: 01 Aug 2012
Posts: 793
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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 7:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Censorship in the DM Chats Reply with quote

Alain DeMuer wrote:
. . . I'd like to address the legal questions first if possible. If this is based on a legal requirement, and changing the age limit is too tricky or just not something the community or its administrators is willing to consider, then just clarifying censorship standards may be the best we can do.


as far as i know, there is no legal issue here. the only way it could skip into that territory would be if the swearing was sexual in nature (even the mpaa recognizes a difference between an f-bomb as an intensifier or an exclamation as opposed to a sexual verb). the 'naughty' version of butt, poop, all that business -- i can't think of any age-related legal issues there. i believe the pg-13 is just to try to make things friendly/unoffensive as opposed to a way to cover butts legally.

along these lines, sort of? there are some extremely raunchy and explicit posts on the rdi forums that have absolutely zero filter problems because they're written... artfully? ha.

if there is to be censorship at all (which i disagree with, but IF there needs to be), i'm much more concerned about content than i am about words. unfortunately, a filter isn't an effective way to police this, and it would have to be manually done. i think a filter is a quick fix that doesn't really get at the core of the 'issue' of being offensive or too raunchy or whatnot (if there is such an issue at all).

i also like the points dill's player brought up -- that we're all mature here (for the most part), that we all understand when to use certain words and when not to. we know what's offensive, what's over the line.

not that it counts for much, but i too would be totally on board with the option to turn the filter off.
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Faerie
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Joined: 16 Apr 2013
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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 9:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Censorship in the DM Chats Reply with quote

Ben Sullivan wrote:

i also like the points dill's player brought up -- that we're all mature here (for the most part), that we all understand when to use certain words and when not to. we know what's offensive, what's over the line.


I've noticed that several people have stated that we are all mature enough here (or most of us are) to use profanity in a responsible way, to not go over the line, and so on.

I feel that the complaints about the explicit nature of some of what's been going on in the rooms directly contradicts those statements. If there is such a proliferation of sexually explicit play going on when the room is not being watched by a Host, then clearly people are not mature enough to follow the guidelines and play in a way that is respectful and non-offensive to other players.

Give somebody an inch and they'll take a mile.
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Ben Sullivan
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PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 12:18 am    Post subject: Re: Censorship in the DM Chats Reply with quote

Faerie wrote:
Ben Sullivan wrote:

i also like the points dill's player brought up -- that we're all mature here (for the most part), that we all understand when to use certain words and when not to. we know what's offensive, what's over the line.


I've noticed that several people have stated that we are all mature enough here (or most of us are) to use profanity in a responsible way, to not go over the line, and so on.

I feel that the complaints about the explicit nature of some of what's been going on in the rooms directly contradicts those statements. If there is such a proliferation of sexually explicit play going on when the room is not being watched by a Host, then clearly people are not mature enough to follow the guidelines and play in a way that is respectful and non-offensive to other players.

Give somebody an inch and they'll take a mile.


i've never seen explicit stuff in the chat (not that i'm there 24/7, but still), so maybe it's a sort of isolated incident? should a few bad apples spoil the whole.. bushel? (it's late, and my metaphors are broken.)

fwiw, i think possibly clearer guidelines could prevent that from happening, and a swifter banhammer could be a good deterrent too.

also, that's why i think everyone has said MOST people, and not EVERYONE. some people just don't have the social awareness to adhere to a general social norm, or simply don't care to. i'll still stand by my statement that the vast majority of players aren't writing sexytimes in the chat, tho.

ETA: upon further reflection, i think dropping a couple of s-bombs or calling somebody an a** is not even in the same universe as sexually explicit writing. to say 'i think most people can handle responsible swearing' is not the same as 'i think everyone makes good mature play choices in all arenas always.'
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Race Bannen
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Joined: 24 Apr 2010
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PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It doesn't help matters that the current filter blocks non-offensive words like:

inc-umbant
c-umquat
c-umberbun
c-ocky
c-ocked
sp-unky
as-sess,

etc all because they have what is noted as blockable words as part of their literary make up. I put the dash in them all or the post filter would have knocked them all into @#% characters.
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G
Adult Wyrm
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Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 242
Location: Urnst, or the Arena

PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 7:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Race wrote:
It doesn't help matters that the current filter blocks non-offensive words like:

inc-umbant
c-umquat
c-umberbun
c-ocky
c-ocked
sp-unky
as-sess,

etc all because they have what is noted as blockable words as part of their literary make up. I put the dash in them all or the post filter would have knocked them all into @#% characters.


Cept it's Kumquat. Very Happy And Cumberbund, but that's splitting hairs. Wink
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Xenograg
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PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 8:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Race wrote:
It doesn't help matters that the current filter blocks non-offensive words like:

inc-umbant
c-umquat
c-umberbun
c-ocky
c-ocked
sp-unky
as-sess,

etc all because they have what is noted as blockable words as part of their literary make up. I put the dash in them all or the post filter would have knocked them all into @#% characters.

The filter should not be masking any of those words. I will investigate.
_________________
"The stupidest creative act is still a creative act, and that the real gap isn't between the mediocre and great work. The real gap is between getting started and doing nothing. If you've created something, even if it's stupid, you've put yourself in a position to do more." - Clay Shirky
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Xenograg
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PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 8:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Xenograg wrote:
Race wrote:
It doesn't help matters that the current filter blocks non-offensive words like:

inc-umbant
c-umquat
c-umberbun
c-ocky
c-ocked
sp-unky
as-sess,

etc all because they have what is noted as blockable words as part of their literary make up. I put the dash in them all or the post filter would have knocked them all into @#% characters.

The filter should not be masking any of those words. I will investigate.

The only one I got filtered was spunky, which should not have been.

Also, please be clear if we are talking about posting filter and live chat filter. They are two separate systems.
_________________
"The stupidest creative act is still a creative act, and that the real gap isn't between the mediocre and great work. The real gap is between getting started and doing nothing. If you've created something, even if it's stupid, you've put yourself in a position to do more." - Clay Shirky
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Natolii
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Joined: 14 Jun 2006
Posts: 741

PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 6:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually Ben, in the last 48hrs there has been an instance in the chat. Plus I have had to leave the room with certain characters because their play is borderline (my opinion) a violation of the stated rules on such on a consistant basis... And when asked IC to stop it, it continued. This occurred within the last week.

To refresh memories...

The Red in RDI is not for Red Light District

So what happened to the enforcement of this?
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Your boy's a mercenary man
A soldier made of steel
A shotgun rings; the wind is calling my name
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Last edited by Natolii on Thu May 09, 2013 7:08 am; edited 1 time in total
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PrlUnicorn
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Location: Navarra Farms, Duchy of Navarra

PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 6:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Part of the problem seems to be that the filter doesn't recognize anything past what was tagged as offensive. Is it possible they were coded with some type of wild card marker?
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Faerie
Young Wyrm
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Joined: 16 Apr 2013
Posts: 40

PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 9:03 am    Post subject: Re: Censorship in the DM Chats Reply with quote

Ben Sullivan wrote:

ETA: upon further reflection, i think dropping a couple of s-bombs or calling somebody an a** is not even in the same universe as sexually explicit writing. to say 'i think most people can handle responsible swearing' is not the same as 'i think everyone makes good mature play choices in all arenas always.'


This was kind of my point that I did not make clearly.

Yes, sexually explicit writing in the room (I think we really need to differentiate where we are talking about) should probably be considered more serious.

But if people, even a minority of the people here, cannot be responsible enough not to write sexually explicit material in the chat room, why should we expect them to respect the "less serious" rules about profanity? The kid who skips school all the time (a more serious rule) is probably not overly concerned about raising his hand in class before speaking (a less serious rule).

I'm not against making the filter optional. I just think it's a big mistake to make the assumption that people are responsible and respectful enough not to take a little relaxing of the profanity filter and run with it.
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Candy Hart
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Joined: 15 May 2008
Posts: 188
Location: Around.

PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 9:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Xenograg wrote:
Xenograg wrote:
R ace wrote:
It doesn't help matters that the current filter blocks non-offensive words like:

inc-umbant
c-umquat
c-umberbun
c-ocky
c-ocked
sp-unky
as-sess,

etc all because they have what is noted as blockable words as part of their literary make up. I put the dash in them all or the post filter would have knocked them all into @#% characters.

The filter should not be masking any of those words. I will investigate.

The only one I got filtered was spunky, which should not have been.

Also, please be clear if we are talking about posting filter and live chat filter. They are two separate systems.


I've run into this when posting the word co-cktails here and on RDI. I can't remember if the same happened on RoH.
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Goldglo
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Joined: 28 Mar 2006
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Location: Terran Confederation

PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The word c-ockpit is masked when message-board posting, too. I've had to write my way around that many times.

Example (I'm going to type "c-ockpit", without the dash, after the colon): cockpit.

It's not filtered in the chat-rooms, though (at least not on RoH).

--Matt
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Yeardley Owens
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Joined: 16 Apr 2011
Posts: 20
Location: Rhydin born and raised

PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 8:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Censorship in the DM Chats Reply with quote

[quote="Faerie"]
Ben Sullivan wrote:

ETA: upon further reflection, i think dropping a couple of s-bombs or

I'm not against making the filter optional. I just think it's a big mistake to make the assumption that people are responsible and respectful enough not to take a little relaxing of the profanity filter and run with it.


But we have the opposite in the form of the ignore feature, so if you don't want to see it you have full control over it. This works for any content, sexual or vulgarity.
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Faerie
Young Wyrm
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Joined: 16 Apr 2013
Posts: 40

PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 7:46 am    Post subject: Re: Censorship in the DM Chats Reply with quote

Yeardley Owens wrote:

But we have the opposite in the form of the ignore feature, so if you don't want to see it you have full control over it. This works for any content, sexual or vulgarity.


I understand that we have the ignore feature. Players should not have to ignore other players if the rules are being broken (say for sexually explicit material); it just should not be happening. There are plenty of other venues to play out material that is not in line with the DM guidelines. People can take their cyber-sex to AIM or some other chat feature as they have been doing for years.

In regards to vulgarity, I think it's a little nonsensical to offer up the ignore feature as a solution to that. One, players would end up putting a lot of people on ignore, possibly including people they want to play with, just to avoid reading a few things they are uncomfortable with. Two, why ignore the whole content a player is posting (and the player) when it's a few words that are the problem?

It's one thing to ignore a post on the boards if you don't like the content (especially if the posts are properly labelled in some way or some warning is given), but in order to ignore similar content in the room, players have to ignore everything the other player is posting, not just the objectionable content. That's the part that doesn't make sense.

If players really want the freedom to use as much vulgarity as they want (or whatever it is people are requesting here; it really isn't clear), then other players need to have the right to filter just that instead of being forced to ignore everything.
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Dora Lynch
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Joined: 30 May 2005
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Location: Lives in an Estate owned by Tara; stays in the RDI , at times.

PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 3:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it that some what might be called censorship can fall into the category of self control. Language is what communicates and what is suitable in one situation IRL is not in another.

When I RP a character angry or one who is IC using rough language, I make do with obscure or invented terms, accenting them with body language to communicate their angry and frustration.

Limitations to wearing at least minimal clothing while in the RDI, restraint from intense make out behavior or taking that mutually agreed brawl out to the back alley challenges creativity, not smothers it, in my mind.

The interactions of RP characters which blend IRL spats with IC confrontations a whole another thing. I do not know how to deal with such things other than not to participate in them or allow your character to do anything you do not want them to do or say.


I have been around RP some years and know how wild and weird it can get without any rules or guidelines. RDI is to me a basic level of internet civilization .
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