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Natolii
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 4:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Plus anyone can do a /back 30 and see what you said up till then. Yes, they have to log in as well.

All am saying it might be something where someone might want to be more careful in the long run all-around.

I, personally, don't see the need for public logs for the OOC rooms.
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Erinalle Dunbridge
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 5:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good, then we agree that logs aren't necessary.

I feel like they can be a horrible idea, honestly. And i don't say anything racy in the lobby... just want to be able to complain about my runny eggs and the bus being late without having anyone on the web able to read it later without any way to trace them...
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Natolii
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I understand why there is a call for the logs though. It is seem as a place to be nasty towards other members behind their backs or to their faces. To their faces can be actioned, but how do you know when someone it trash talking others behind their backs?

Not always easy to ask Panther to look into it within the current time frame. I don't think they need to be posted, but maybe easier to access for the Admin in the long run.
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Marc Franco
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with Erin's player.

There's another thread talking about stalking right now and, honestly, I am far more worried about the ability to stalk through logging of the OOC room if those logs became publicly available.

Can you only imagine what little nuggets of truth about yourself you drop over the course of a month or two without even realizing it?

For example, through OOC logs of the room I'm pretty sure I could figure out what school Erin goes to, read her complaints about the bus routes, and, with a bit of internet searching, I may even be able to find out what bus she takes to school.

And Erin's an adult woman who is fairly tight-lipped with her personal information. What sort of information are the fifteen and sixteen year olds among us talking about in there? If you gather up information on a person over the course of a month or two, these small pieces of truth that seem perfectly innocent at the time can start to turn into a real picture of that person's life.
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Ehzoterik
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Joined: 28 Aug 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Either I'm old-fashioned, or I play too frequently on AOL and not here. For as long as I have been playing, I've always understood that keeping records (or logging) of my role-play time (or chat) has always been my own responsibility. It's become habit now for me to open a log as soon as I start a play session, and AOL's programming has a tool that lets me do that.

Before I discovered that tool of the program, though, I used to constantly copy and paste lines of my session into alternative documents. E-mail or Word files, for instance. It sort of made playing tedious because of how religiously I insisted on keeping records like that, but it was a way in which I could ensure I wouldn't forget what happened. I have a bad memory when it comes to details, and I like to go back and read my logs as if they were stories that I've been working on.

It did not take me long (three days) to discover the save function on the RDI flashchat. One of my priorities for a service is that they have some way for me to be able to record my sessions. It's just too much work for me to want to go back to the old C&P method, so when I discovered that save button I was very pleased.

As I said before, if I wanted records I've understood it's always been my own responsibility to keep them. AOL, to the best of my knowledge, doesn't have a back-up system in case I forget to start a log. My best chance then is to contact someone I know was also there to ask if he or she might have a log of the session.

I suppose my whole point here is that I don't believe public logs of anything are necessary. If people want records then they should think to file them on their own. Otherwise, in my opinion, they're SOL. Plus, Mr. Franco's player here raises a very fine point.
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Panther
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 8:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

when we first opened, on our shared server situation... the chat had problems. The SAVE button option was great, but it was also buggy .. if a person wasn't signed on when you clicked SAVE, their past lines wouldn't have a name on them.

Most the stuff has been fixed, but you could be reaching with your pointer for that SAVE button and if your connection suddenly dropped for whatever reason... you were SOL.

We knew, especially then, the overwhelming majority of our players were from AOL and were used to easy logging.

So, I asked Xeno if he could write some code to post the logs you see, and luckily he was able to. We purposely limit how long they are available for a variety of reasons... but mostly to make sure folks grab what they want right away, and not rely on us to store their stuff forever, because when it comes down to it, if someone wants a log of their folder or of their chat for the long haul, it is their responsibility.

When it comes down to it, it is part of what we can do to make our "service" more appealing to our "customers", and set us apart from other similar services.
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Kairee
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let's face it, there is a difference between wanting logs of IC play and OOC chat.

People often love to save logs of their play either as an ongoing chronological so they don't forget what happened or as the fodder to build/write the prose of the scene.

OOC lobby logging is more than likely to be used for one of two things....stalking, as has been noted, or a means for further fodder in attacking others.

"We want transparency........To build trust....really!"

Nonsense.

People just want to know who's talking about them and what they said so they can either have their ego stroked or they can be righteously indignant.

It may come as a shock to you all, especially the sweet and pure among us, but backstabbing while smiling in someone's face happens all the time in real life too. How many times have you personally been in a party and participated in a gossipy conversation where in something less than nice was said about someone? And when that someone is around, everyone is all smiles and kissy.

Please. Humans are involved. Not everyone is going to like others and people will express their dislike to others they think they can trust. It's not meant to be hurtful to the "target" but more of a release valve.

Private conversations should be kept private and if someone who is told something in PMs can't keep their mouths shut, they are truly someone no one should trust.

Beyond that, it's ok for people not to like each other or agree with each other. We are not hive-minds. We are individuals. We will disagree. We will be annoyed. We will like some more than others.

It's okay. It really is.

What's not okay is going out of your way to hurt someone or in being uncivil just because you can be.

When in the lobby and someone is attacking someone else, speak up. Stand up. Be heard.

I've done it. I've defended people who were being slammed.

I've also said things others may not like. When called on it, I am more than willing to defend my statements but I've never said things publicly that are meant to harass, insult or demean anyone else.

That should not be accepted and as members of a community, it's up to us as individuals to make it clear that certain behaviors are not welcome or tolerated.

If you call someone a friend that acts in a double faced manner or who slams people publicly when they aren't around to defend themselves...why are they your friend? Why don't you think they are doing the same with you? Smiling in your face and backstabbing you? Why associate with them?

As for PMs.... they are private conversations.

I hope nasty things aren't said about me behind my back but if they are, I am not surprised (humans are involved) and honestly, I don't care.

If it turns out to be someone I like and respect who is bad mouthing me, well, their duplicity will be uncovered, and they will no longer have my good will and respect.
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LordTravanix
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 2:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Really - why is this still an issue?

Honestly, there is NO need, no excuse good enough to validate the need to log the Lobby or any other OOC forum. Logs are great to review play, to verify actions or to flash back for posts.

There is no excuse or reason that can justify Lobby OOC logs.

"Well, what if so and such is doing such and so behind my back." Then, you know, so and such needs to grow up and be an adult.

Drop this topic, and move on with your life. Sheesh.
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Natolii
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 6:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Been dead for four days until Kairee brought it back up.

Wink
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A shotgun rings; the wind is calling my name
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Kairee
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 9:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hey now.. I am finally able to catch up.

Life has been very busy.
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Natolii
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 9:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very Happy
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Maerissa LaeAnna Drakonis
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 6:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let's discuss another reason, but before we do...

Quote:
It may come as a shock to you all, especially the sweet and pure among us, but backstabbing while smiling in someone's face happens all the time in real life too. How many times have you personally been in a party and participated in a gossipy conversation where in something less than nice was said about someone? And when that someone is around, everyone is all smiles and kissy.


Never. Didn't attend parties like that, or I wasn't privy to conversations such as that at parties I attended. Not as a teenager or as an adult.

Now maybe I just missed the conversation, for which I will always be thankful. But let's go beyond backbiting in a bit.

Quote:
Please. Humans are involved. Not everyone is going to like others and people will express their dislike to others they think they can trust. It's not meant to be hurtful to the "target" but more of a release valve.


So, if it is supposed to be private, between one or two good friends, why do it in a public forum such as the lobby where it is going to be read by any and all who are going through to get to other rooms (and they have no choice but to do so if they want to play in another room).

Who's ego is being stroked?

Quote:
Private conversations should be kept private and if someone who is told something in PMs can't keep their mouths shut, they are truly someone no one should trust.


And this has to do with the conversation about logging the lobby how?

Quote:
Beyond that, it's ok for people not to like each other or agree with each other. We are not hive-minds. We are individuals. We will disagree. We will be annoyed. We will like some more than others.

It's okay. It really is.

What's not okay is going out of your way to hurt someone or in being uncivil just because you can be.

When in the lobby and someone is attacking someone else, speak up. Stand up. Be heard.

I've done it. I've defended people who were being slammed.

I've also said things others may not like. When called on it, I am more than willing to defend my statements but I've never said things publicly that are meant to harass, insult or demean anyone else.


Now for the beyond.

Person A doesn't like Person B (for whatever reason), and wants them off this site, so....

Person A decides to go into the Lobby and bash Person B, trying to see how many other persons they can get to agree with them...

And then it goes too far. Not only are they asking for Person B to be banned, but make a statement to the effect that Person B shouldn't even be alive...

For those of you that think that that's just blowing off steam, I'm going to give you something to think about...

What happens when Person C, who may not be totally mentally stable, comes in, decides that they are in love with Person A, and the way to win Person A's heart is to fulfill their wish?

Think it can't happen?

Think it hasn't before?

You might want to look a little deeper.

What happens when you are Person B?
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Wyheree
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 10:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Which is why people don't say real names or put up addresses and phone numbers in the lobby...

It's been made crystal clear lobby logs aren't coming. I'm sure if at any time someone feels threatened - a simple message to the admins with dates and times will allow them to check. They are the ONLY ones who need to see them - not the public at large - which is fine by me. I don't need to see what other people talk about when I'm not around. If people want to talk about me - more power to them. I have other things in my life that take a much higher priority than worrying about what other people say when I'm not around.
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Maerissa LaeAnna Drakonis
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wy, I understand.

And I'm not really expecting that there is going to be a change, at least not in the near future.

However, since this is an open discussion and accusations (yes, they are accusations) of ulterior motives being behind the advocacy of this remaining on the table by the admins for consideration. I'm going to answer said accusation.

Personally, I couldn't care less if someone talks about me, calls me names, etc. However, some times it goes beyond that.

Quote:
I'm sure if at any time someone feels threatened - a simple message to the admins with dates and times will allow them to check.


Now, I'm going to ask a question.

Who will this request to the admins be made by?

Not Person B, because when Person B comes into the Lobby, it suddenly goes all sugary sweet.

Not Person A, they aren't going to the admins to admit that they said something that went beyond the pale of simple bashing.

Certainly not Person C, after all, they want Person A to fall in love with them, so it has to be a nice little secret...

Are you thinking that the mass who were in the Lobby observing this and have a tendency to turn a blind eye to muggings going on as they are on their way to work are going to run to Panther?

Where is this report going to come from?

And what do you think Panther is going to do if it is presented to him?
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Maerissa LaeAnna Drakonis
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 11:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

And let me add one other thought to this Wy...

What happens if Person B comes in long after the threatening line of text is now line 31+, and so they miss it?

You see, that tree that fell in that forest was heard by someone, but was it the right someone?
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